Fact-Checking Organizer of ‘Liberate Long Beach’ Protest
16 minute readLong Beach has been under stay-at-home orders for over seven weeks. Nearly 900 residents have tested positive for COVID-19. Thirty eight of them have died from complications of the virus.
Protests opposing the stay-at-home orders have occurred across the region (and country) as some demand a faster reopening of businesses deemed non-essential, even as the state this week saw its largest single-day coronavirus case increase.
Their arguments range from out-and-out denial of COVID-19’s deadly impact to the belief the virus can be warded off with herd immunity or that the impact of a contracting economy is deadlier than the disease itself.
Others, like Jesus Cisneros, who is organizing a similar protest in Long Beach this afternoon at Bluff Park, believe governments are overstepping their authority. You may remember Cisneros from the Second City Council District primary election in March, in which he ran as an anti-establishment conservative (and lied about receiving an endorsement from the LA County GOP, we came to find). He finished last among seven candidates.
Cisneros acknowledges the existence of COVID-19—so he’s not exactly a truther—instead relying on economic and civil liberties arguments, hence his name for the event, “Liberate Long Beach.” If that rhetoric sounds familiar, it’s because it echoes the all-caps tweets fired off by President Donald Trump, in which he similarly called for states like Virginia and Minnesota to be “liberated” from the coronavirus lockdowns.
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However, local health officials have been unequivocal about the necessity of stay-at-home orders to tamp down the spread of the virus.
“Please do your part to not infect others or become infected yourself by adhering to the public health directives and practicing social distancing whenever you do go outside,” said LA County Public Health Director Dr. Barbara Ferrer at a press briefing last month. “If we all commit ourselves to stay home, stay away from others when sick, and stay 6 feet apart when out, we will save lives.”
Mayor Robert Garcia has called the protest planned for today “short-sighted” and “dangerous.” Cisneros responded by questioning whether the mayor does his own shopping, making a point he made several times in our discussion: If you can go to Walmart, where you encounter others along the aisles, you can hold a demonstration. Health officials stress that stay-at-home orders are meant to mitigate the rate of transmission by reducing the frequency of large crowds to essential activities like shopping for groceries.
Even so, the orders have already begun to be lifted. On Friday, Long Beach—in line with the state’s new reopening plan—relaxed stay-at-home orders to allow nonessential shops, including florists, toy stores, and bookstores to reopen for curbside pick up and delivery service. State and local officials have stressed that all decisions on whether to ease restrictions will be data and expert driven.
Cisneros is employed as a school safety officer with the Los Angeles Unified School District, an unarmed civilian position. He says he was not furloughed as a result of the coronavirus shutdown and is even receiving overtime pay.
A self-identified Latino Trump supporter, he’s called himself a “conservative influencer” on Instagram, where he has 287 followers at last count and has referred to the mayor as a “dictator.” During our conversation, he often veered into incoherency; in one breath supporting Governor Gavin Newsom’s move to distribute one-time relief checks to undocumented immigrants and in the next opposing “handouts.” He stated that the pandemic has affected everyone “equally” and then in the next sentence observed that its effects are “trickling down to different communities.”
He says he expects up to 130 protesters to show up today and says he will do his best to enforce mask wearing and social distancing.
In a statement sent to FORTHE Media, the Long Beach Police Department said they are aware of the demonstration and are prepared to issue “misdemeanor citation(s) and/or arrest” individuals who do not comply with public health orders. But they also said they plan to ensure “individuals are able to lawfully and peacefully assemble to exercise their First Amendment rights to free speech.”
Long Beach’s health officer temporarily banned all public gatherings last month.
Cisneros says he expects protestors from Los Angeles and Huntington Beach, where one of the first demonstrations against the stay-at-home orders in the state took place last week, will be joining the Long Beach demonstration.
Cisneros requested the interview be conducted in person while maintaining social distancing. The offer was declined and the interview took place via telephone. The interview, which took place on April 30, has been lightly edited for length and clarity with fact checks and contextual notes throughout in blue.
What does Long Beach need liberating from?
We’re being controlled. We’re being told, “You can’t work. You are not essential. You have to shut down your business.”
The media that has called me, they’re like: “Oh, is this a Trump rally?” I’m like, “Oh my god, all you have to do is read my Instagrams. I go step by step. I’m really detailed.” You know, I’m even saying, “Hey, this is not a Republican thing. This is not Democratic thing, not progressive, not socialist; this is not even a commie thing. This is an American thing.”
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This is affecting everybody equally, and it’s trickling down to different communities. Right now, maybe it’s not affecting everybody on top, but it will affect (them) eventually. It’s only been four weeks. If you look at unemployment, it’s crazy where we’re at right now.
Give it another month (and) the small businesses can’t take it. So yes, when I call it Liberate Long Beach, it’s from the oppression (of governmental officials).
Governor Gavin Newsom said Friday that unemployment is likely to rise “north of 20 percent.”
What’s been the response that you’ve received from people online?
I’m getting both, good and bad.
I had one lady that said: “Go back to Mexico.” I’m not Mexican but it’s okay.
I’m getting really supportive (messages). I’m getting a lot of small business owners who are coming (to the protest). I have a couple of nurses coming, seven total. They’re actually bringing masks and gloves.
As of April 30, there have been 629 total positive COVID-19 results here in Long Beach, including 55 people currently hospitalized and 33 deaths. Nationwide, total deaths for COVID-19 are at over 60,000, more than all U.S. deaths in Vietnam. Are you worried that your demonstration could put people at risk of contracting coronavirus?
I’ll give you some more facts: more people go to Walmart and Target and Costco every single day, stand close together, and in line, and they’re all over, pushing each other.
Nobody’s complaining about them. So we can stand six feet apart and wear a mask at Walmart and Costco and all those other big corporate places? Why can’t we do that at small businesses?
Now I approached… to say something simple: “Why can’t we make appointments?”
You want to open up certain shops again and certain small businesses, why can’t they make appointments? You’d have it under control. Timmy comes at 6. John comes at 7. Mario comes at 9. Why can’t we do that? Simple steps instead of just shutting down everything.
Now if you want to talk about facts, then let’s go into obesity. So are we going to make that illegal to go? Are we going to make forks and fast food illegal?
More people die of that than anything. Nobody’s talking about that.
So we’re going to make alcohol illegal too? How many people died from drunk driving? Are we gonna make cars illegal because hundreds and thousands of people died (in) car crashes? No.
This is a free country. We have to make our own choices.
I do believe it’s oppression. I do believe if you tell somebody, you are not essential, you cannot work, and I’m not sure how I’m going to give you money, but you know, we’re going to figure it out. You can’t do that.
I can’t believe in America, such a free country, you’re being told you are not essential. People should freaking protest that, being called non-essential.
You can’t feed yourself, you can’t feed your family. That’s really what it comes down to.
Not all small businesses are closed, only those deemed non-essential. But what counts as essential and non-essential and why? The state—with guidance from the federal government—identified 16 critical infrastructure sectors as the baseline of what is considered an essential business. These are businesses that provide life-sustaining services. Among other things, they include gas stations, grocery stores, pharmacies, licensed medical cannabis dispensaries, and certain manufacturing facilities. However, local governments can impose tighter controls if they choose to do so.
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President Donald Trump made the comparison between traffic fatalities and coronavirus deaths during a briefing last month:
“[Y]ou look at automobile accidents, which are far greater than any numbers we’re talking about. That doesn’t mean we’re going to tell everybody, ‘No more driving of cars.’ So we have to do things to get our country open.”
Dr. Anthony Fauci, the head of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, called the argument a “false equivalency.”
In 2018, traffic fatalities accounted for 3,563 deaths in California, according to the Office of Traffic Safety. Meanwhile, COVID-19 has caused 2,504 deaths in California since March, and the state’s death toll is projected to cross 4,500 by August, according to the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation.
Government officials have said they plan on phasing in the reopening in the future, but will be listening to the advice of medical professionals. Do you think we should accept the judgement of these professionals?
Yes and no. Yes, because of course they have the education. Yes, they have a lot of the facts. But when they’re making a hundred, two hundred, three hundred thousand dollars as a doctor or as a scientist, you’re not going to freakin tell me—somebody that works in retail, or somebody that’s a single mom, or a college student—you’re going to tell them they can’t work and they can’t feed themselves. So, yes, it’s nice for you to be up there making hundreds of thousands of dollars, but no, you’re not going to tell people no you can’t work but I can.
Do you think medical professionals have a motive to keep people out of work? Do they in some way benefit from people being out of work?
I really don’t think so. I’m not gonna speak for thousands of scientists and doctors, I really can’t do that, that would be silly of me to say. I’m not big on conspiracy theories. I do believe they’re doing their job. But just as they’re doing their job, other people have their jobs…
The thing with diseases, and something they’re not talking about, (is) they don’t disappear. Dude, this thing is not going away. It’s gonna be here forever. It’s just like AIDS is and everything else. They don’t go away. Are we gonna have our rights taken away forever?
While the scientific community has only begun to understand SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, experts have observed some important differences between it and HIV based on preliminary data. Among those differences is the lower spontaneous mutation rate of SARS-CoV-2 compared to HIV. It’s also been noted that the SARS-CoV-2 genome does not integrate into the genomes of infected cells, something that makes HIV even more difficult to vaccinate against.
Do you think that the stay-at-home orders have lowered the total number of COVID-19 infections? Would the number of infections been higher had they not instituted stay-at-home orders?
How is it that New York and California have the strictest [rules], but we have the most cases?
This is a misrepresentation of the present figures. While New York and California rank first and fifth, respectively, in terms of total documented coronavirus cases, the two states are also among the most populous in the country. As of this morning, California has 62,512 coronavirus cases, which pencils out to 160 cases per 100,000 people. In comparison, New York has 330,407 cases at 1,684 per 100,000 people. New York tops the list when looking at the numbers per capita, while California ranks 33rd.
New York And California have different numbers. New York is a hotbed that accounted for half of cases nationwide as of March 22. I wouldn’t say they have the same numbers.
No, of course, but you look at the high numbers. Now if you want to talk about California, let’s go in California: they started a little late. A little bit [later] than other people. Our numbers are so huge and we have some of the strictest safe-at-home orders. How does it happen?
Now just look at Japan. So how is it that Japan/Tokyo, which is way more condensed than the people here, they have millions of people. How is it that they only have 95 [COVID-19 deaths]?
While Cisneros is correct that Japan has seen far fewer coronavirus deaths per 100,000 people than the U.S., there is no definitive explanation yet as to why. Experts have speculated that the country’s social etiquette, such as greeting that doesn’t involve physical contact and the population’s habit of using face masks may be contributing to the lower infection rate.
Different states and localities have instituted stay-at-home orders that range in strictness. However, it is too early for the data to bear out what types of stay-at-home orders have been most effective in preventing the spread of COVID-19. Some early indicators show that California’s swift and decisive response to the outbreak may have saved lives.
Will you be bringing your family to the rally?
Yes, of course.
Your children as well?
Yes, they’ll be attending too.
Is there popular support for lifting stay-at-home orders? And if so, what evidence do you have to support your conclusion?
The phone calls I’ve been getting. The people I have been talking to. How come there’s a protest almost in every single major state, in every single major city. Just look at tomorrow, turn on your news tomorrow, you’ll see.
The LBPD has said that while they are committed to ensuring folks are able to “exercise their First Amendment rights to free speech,” they are prepared to issue citations or arrest those who do not comply with the City Health Order. Police say an organizer in San Diego may be charged with a misdemeanor for encouraging others to violate stay-at-home orders. Are you willing to go to jail?
Yes. This is our rights. This is our freedom. This is America. What the hell? This is freedom of speech. This is freedom to assemble. Maybe people are forgetting the Constitution. That’s what people are tired [of]. There is a Constitution. We do follow the Constitution. Thousands and thousands of people enlist in the military every single year because they go fight for our rights. It’s just people forget we have a Constitution. We do have a right to assemble. We do have a right for freedom of speech, and you will see on my day nobody’s gonna get arrested and nobody’s gonna get a citation.
So in a scenario where you have a mass of people gathering, and social distancing is not being followed, and the police order you to shut down the event, you’re going to jail?
No. If anybody breaks (social distancing protocol) I’m gonna say, “You go home. You’re not supporting this, you’re not doing [this] legal.” And of course if the police say, “hey, you’re gonna shut it down,” we shut it down.
If they say, “You have to shut it down because it’s unlawful assembly. You guys are not listening. They’re not wearing [personal protective equipment],” of course I’m going to listen.
By then we have already made our point that people are not happy, that not everybody agrees one hundred percent with stay-at-home (orders) and I’m telling you, all you have to do is cruise down Ocean Boulevard. You’ll see how many people are hanging out (not following stay-at-home orders).
How are you going to enforce social distancing?
We have rules. I have a lot of volunteers that have been helping me. (I) tell them, 6 feet apart, you gotta wear a mask…
And of course, we can’t keep them six feet apart the whole time. Just like you can’t do that at Walmart, you’re not gonna say, “Hey, you cross over for three seconds! You’re going home.” Come on, let’s be realistic.
You’re going to demand people wear masks?
Everybody’s wearing (personal protective equipment).
So if someone is not wearing a mask, you’re going to tell them to go home?
We’re going to give them a mask. If they don’t want to wear it, they have to go home.
You’re enforcing social distancing and mask-wearing because you want the protest to be lawful, correct? Or do you believe that they will prevent people from catching coronavirus?
Both.
I do believe there’s coronavirus. I do believe it’s infectious. But what I’m saying is if you can (shop at a big) corporate place, you can do it in a small business, you can (attend) the protests.
People are like, “Oh my god, are you doing this because you don’t believe in coronavirus!?”
I’m like, “Okay, you must be stupid. If you read everything I have written, it’s for small businesses.” This is why I’m doing this. To open up small businesses. To give us back our freedom.
We’re all essential.
You use the words socialism and communism to describe the lockdown. First, what is the difference between socialism and communism?
I will in about three minutes if you call me back because my wife is looking at me weird right now. So give me three minutes and call me back.
Okay.
Subsequent efforts to continue the interview were unsuccessful.
joe@forthe.org
